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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 8:48:42 GMT -8
Phillies send: - Rhys Hoskins, $960K, 2022
- Nick Williams, $600K, 2022
Twins send: - Paul Goldschmidt, $38.9MM, 2021-22P, +coverage amounts of $10MM in 2018, $20MM in 2019, $30MM in 2020, $30MM in 2021
- Aaron Altherr, $3.8MM, 2019-20P
- Wade Leblanc, $600K, 2018-19T (Paid Minors)
Phillies reasoning: - Goldy's a fantasy top-10 stalwart but given his age, there's no way I'm trading a very promising Hoskins for him without salary coverage which Twins was prepared to offer
- Altherr I'm not all that thrilled about but if he can stay healthy he's got a chance to outearn his contract and I needed another outfielder with Hoskins and Williams both heading out
- Leblanc is a contract dump
- While I love Hoskins' potential and think Williams can further develop into a fantasy starting outfielder some day, I couldn't pass up the chance to pick up an affordable Goldschmidt, even if on the tail end of his prime years (hey, Beltre was highly productive until his late-30s); with the salary coverage, my only significant risk now becomes the player option at which point, if the wheels completely fall off the wagon, I can drop him and save ~$18MM in 2022
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 10:03:10 GMT -8
Not sure this trade is legal you can't have more then 20M in retained contract per year. It is aggregate, and I guess MIN can get 10M in relief somewhere else by 2020.
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Post by Chicago Cubs (Curtis) on Mar 8, 2018 10:29:14 GMT -8
Yeah this will need some serious work to comply with the retained salary obligation rules
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2018 19:40:16 GMT -8
Apologies for the money snafu. I believe we have it figured out now. Here's the updated deal:
Phillies send: Rhys Hoskins, $960K, 2022 Nick Williams, $600K, 2022 Matt Andriese, $7.2MM, 2021-22P (Paid Minors) Andrew Susac, $4MM, 2021-22P (Paid Minors)
Twins send: Paul Goldschmidt, $38.9MM, 2021-22P, +coverage amounts of $18.7MM in 2018, $20MM in 2019, $20MM in 2020, $20MM in 2021 Aaron Altherr, $3.8MM, 2019-20P Wade Leblanc, $600K, 2018-19T (Paid Minors)
Twins' "aggregrate" retained salary for 2018 is $1.3MM ($5.8MM for Kepler minus $4.5MM for Maeda). This leaves $18.7MM of his total $20MM allotment. Both salaries come off his books at the end of this season, allowing for the $20MM/yr for future seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2018 6:11:46 GMT -8
I'd say +10 Phillies assuming this deal fits the legal standard...Twins are essentially trading a $39 million Goldy for a $19-21 million Hoskins with all the retention plus Twins are taking on another $11 million on bad contracts on top of it so that's even less of a savings overall. Going from Altherr to Williams is an upgrade in terms of team control and salary but not enough to offset the very minimal savings it's getting overall on Goldy-Hoskins. And Goldy's only 30, it's not like he's going to fall off a cliff during the life of the contract playing 1B so Hoskins better be for real and a star in the making for this deal to be close to worth it for Twins.
I'd originally judged this more harshly till I remembered the Phillies were shifting Hoskins to the OF. I do think Hoskins going to the outfield should help Twins cause OF > 1B in terms of value in this league, just was initially surprised to see there wasn't as much salary savings as you'd figure trading a Goldy.
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Post by Detroit Tigers (Matt) on Mar 10, 2018 8:18:32 GMT -8
+10 Phillies, MIN is going for broke with the salary retention. And I'm really big on goldshmit, I think he has as much potential value in this league as trout (I know so controversial of me to say)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 7:35:40 GMT -8
hillies send: Rhys Hoskins, $960K, 2022 Nick Williams, $600K, 2022 Matt Andriese, $7.2MM, 2021-22P (Paid Minors) Andrew Susac, $4MM, 2021-22P (Paid Minors)
Twins send: Paul Goldschmidt, $38.9MM, 2021-22P, +coverage amounts of $18.7MM in 2018, $20MM in 2019, $20MM in 2020, $20MM in 2021 Aaron Altherr, $3.8MM, 2019-20P Wade Leblanc, $600K, 2018-19T (Paid Minors)
MIN Reasons:
Love Goldschmidt but he was almost 20% of my salary cap so moving him for Hoskins ($960,000) + a small OF ugrade w/ Wiliams (+ his $600k as opposed to Altherr's $3.8 mil). Hoskins should end up with dual eligibility at 1B/OF and projects well going forward.
After saying all that, my primary focus remains cutting salary, upgrading pitching, and adding prospects. I lose SBs with Goldschmidt but feel that Hoskins will hit 30+ HRs this year and the Phillies will be a better team this year (so an opportunity to score more runs and have more RBIs).
I end up taking on $6.8 mil of bad contract in Susac + Andriese so, yes, that's a hit for my team. But w/o any decent pitching, it really doesn't matter. You look at several of the top teams and there is no way to compete w/osome adequate pitching. Losing a big expensive bat for a cheaper good bat is acceptable when looking at the long haul IMO. I gain +18.9 mil in 2019 after all these deals so have to keep making hard decisions that work within the rules and conditions of the league. (When your team sucks, it is difficult getting it to unsuck).
But, I'm excited about the possibility of getting better. Was very easy to work w/ Paul.
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Post by Detroit Tigers (Matt) on Mar 11, 2018 9:29:14 GMT -8
I feel bad for Alther, the guy can't find a home since I traded him away :/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 11:49:40 GMT -8
I feel bad for Alther, the guy can't find a home since I traded him away :/ Since I traded him away to the former Tigers... haha
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 12:17:52 GMT -8
+10 PHI
I really don't get this trade if a primary concern was shedding salary. If Hoskins continues his performance from last year, then his salary will only increase. Couple that with the salary retention and bad contracts, MIN will be paying more then he would have by the end of the contract then if he just stuck with Goldie. The other end is if Hoskins craps or even goes becomes average, then you're paying 30M to save 8 on one of the best players in the league. I'm actually a believer in Hoskins, so think scenario one is more likely.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 12:53:55 GMT -8
+17 Phillies
I hated this deal at first, but after I looked more into it I convinced myself it's closer than I initially thought if you only look at production. I mainly don't understand why the Twins were willing to keep as much of Goldy's salary as they did. With the withheld salary and the salary dumps of Susac and Andriese, the Phillies are essentially getting Goldy for $7.7MM through 2021, which is a steal. Susac and Andriese have the same term on their deals as Goldy, so the Twins won't get any extra cap relief before the end of the Goldy contract barring trade. To top it all off, the Twins have limited their flexibility to withhold salary in deals for the next few years, they'll have to give up extra assets to get other teams to return players with withheld salary prior to making any deals where they want to withhold salary themselves. The same applies for buyouts.
Hoskins and Williams are promising and definitely accomplish the Twins' goal of adding prospects/young players. However, they're both arbitration eligible, so their salaries won't stay as low as they are right now unless they don't perform. Fantrax projects them to be the 10th and 62nd best outfielders this year (who knows how accurate that is, but let's assume they stay exactly at those rankings for the duration of their contracts for the sake of argument). If they stay at those rankings, their 2021 salaries would be $5.6MM and $1.04MM, almost completely nullifying the savings on Goldy.
I guess if the Phillies keep Goldy for the 2021 season and he accepts the player option for 2022 (and I don't see him turning down $38.9M lol), Philly may have a cap issue, but that's years down the road.
In terms of production, this deal is ok if you believe in Hoskins. I'd rather have Goldschmidt because I've seen him do it, but it's not terrible to pick up two young promising outfielders. However, I think the cap implications are very one-sided in favor of Philly.
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Post by Chicago Cubs (Curtis) on Mar 13, 2018 9:17:58 GMT -8
+15 Phillies. I think the idea of the deal is right for both teams, but in execution I feel like the salary balance swings it pretty significantly into the Phillies' favor. Who knows what impact the fabled humidor will have on Goldy's value though.
Trade processed in spreadsheets and Fantrax.
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