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Post by New York Yankees (Josh) on Jul 3, 2020 11:08:56 GMT -8
Yankees send 2B/3B Ty France $3,000,000 2023-24T RP Jose Alvarez $2,750,000 2022 SP/RP Josh Tomlin $7,000,000 2020 RP Chris Devenski $5,300,000 2021-22P Yankees also send pick #9 of the first round amateur draft and their 5th round amateur pick 9.
For 2B Jose Altuve $24,500,000 2021 With Houston retaining $5 million through 2021. Thanks Wade for the trade. I was torn on giving up France since he's a minor league beast, bit he's been blocked by the million other young guns in the padres system and with Mateo and Jones coming soon it wasn't as bad as of a loss. The rest are just contract filled pieces to make the trade work. I feel my first rounder and France are the key pieces here and with Altuve in my line up it really adds for what I'm trying to do next year with some of the available talent in the Caps brace all this will free up by the end of this season. I'm also not to high in this year's draft so the first round pick doesn't worry me. Thanks Wade the Yankees gladly accept this trade.
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Post by Houston Astros (Wade) on Jul 4, 2020 4:28:53 GMT -8
Thanks for the trade Josh. I took over Houston this spring so looking to rebuild the team from the ground up. Also trying to make the team legit so I needed a 3b and some relievers. I was glad to get Ty France and Jose Alvarez to help with my roster and I am looking for Draft picks for a massive rebuild. Thanks Josh the Houston Astros accept this trade.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 4:53:18 GMT -8
+50 Yankees
Altuve's an elite player for two years and Yankees are basically getting him for next to no salary this season and $8.5 million next year factoring in retained money and contracts going back. All the Astros are getting are #9 OA which is basically a borderline top 100 prospect, a 5th rounder, a question mark at best on a long-term ML contract (who hit like a AAAA player with PCL-inflated numbers last year), and a bunch of expensive bullpen filler. It's just not nearly enough of a return to justify moving Altuve for two years, and without really saving money to boot, though granted Astros don't need cap space this year.
To me Astros gotta get at least two major prospects back, including one elite guy, and not have to retain on the contract into next year for this to be anywhere close to equal for a difference-maker like Altuve. If you're getting a questionable return with low celing like this you gotta at least be saving a lot more than like $10 million of the $49 million left on his deal, in fact the contract retention should really be going the other way for a deal like this.
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Post by Chicago Cubs (Curtis) on Jul 4, 2020 10:29:18 GMT -8
I'm pretty troubled with what to do regarding this deal. I'm pretty sure that the consensus will be that the Astros did not receive nearly enough in return for an elite player like Altuve, even just the "2" years remaining on his contract. I don't think that Alvarez, Tomlin, and Devenski can be made out to be much more than depth pitching at above-market contracts. Even if one believes that Ty France is an everyday major league starter there just not enough here to represent what is a fair trade in the majority opinion. The situation is made more difficult since this is Wade's first trade in the JBL. Houston Astros (Wade), I hope I don't come across as disparaging, but I do think that you should have done a bit more research and shopping around of Altuve before pulling the trigger on this deal. Full disclosure to the rest of the league: I did offer Wade a deal for Altuve that (I believe) is more competitive than this deal posted - but I will not be revisiting these negotiations in order to avoid a conflict of interest between my Cubs and the health of the league. The fact that the Astros are staring down the barrel of a long rebuild (which Wade acknowledges) makes the consequences of allowing a deal like this to go through as structured more detrimental to the long-term health of the league. I feel like I missed an opportunity as commissioner to stop the Astros in particular from being gutted by a previous owner, and am hesitant to allow it to happen again without re-stocking the Houston farm system. This trade doesn't accomplish that as currently structured. Houston Astros (Wade) and New York Yankees (Josh), I suggest you re-visit this deal to determine if any young Yankees can be included in the return going to Houston. A guy like Nolan Jones, Lourdes Gurriel Jr., or Brett Baty feels like the right range of player to me: either young and demonstrated success at the MLB, or a clear top-100 prospect. Please feel free to consult me or other co-commissioners for feedback on how to seek a fair deal.
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Post by New York Yankees (Josh) on Jul 4, 2020 10:41:40 GMT -8
I feel like most of the players were to make the money work, I have had several people comment on my so called bad trades. At the end of the day I did what I felt was best for my rebuild as well as I'm sure Wade did as well. No one ever told me to revisit a trade when I was getting bashed! The first round pick alone is a significant piece. Usually I have found the people that are upset are the ones that didn't get a deal done. Now with all that said there is no way after trading judge for gurriel I would include him or Jones in a trade for Altuve for 1 season. I mean really with the season where it's at now it's not really a season. So with Tomlins contract expiring this year that 7 million off his books. If he like I was is lookingto clear cap for next season this trade does make sense. I would be extremely dissapointed if you void his trade, especially amongst my horrible moves no one did anything for me. My first trade was trash! I go told how stupid I was but hey look at what I've built in just one year. I have the players I want whether the trade in some people's eyes is something they would have done.
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Post by New York Yankees (Josh) on Jul 4, 2020 10:42:51 GMT -8
Oh and ty France is a straight blue chip 4a player with huge upside comparable to Jones or a Mateo!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 11:10:31 GMT -8
I know league integrity is important, but I am 100% behind Josh on this one. There was no recourse for when he was a new owner and he made a certain trade that was even more commented on as unanimously against him. Wade is new and put out there what he was willing to do. We all had a chance to provide an offer and reach a deal. Wade and Josh found one, Wade decided It was the best option for him based on what he received. Deals sometimes look one way on the surface and then when things actually play out, we see how they really are. If everyone played by the same style, rankings, and thought processes, it would be boring to play. The differences in valuations and styles create opportunities for interaction.
That said, this league is not so straight forward and takes time to learn. Like Josh mentioned (and as someone who joined after the league already started, I can relate) he took time to get a hang on things and is now running his team the way he wants in a better manner.
I’d be open to imposing a ruling going forward for all new owners, to have an extra window of time for a trade to be processed if a certain % of people comment on the trade greatly in favor for one owner over the other. Then the parties would have to rework their trade or void it completely. Obviously there would need to be a thing about not doing it just to try to trade for the player yourself, but I think every owner here is pretty good about this and requiring a certain number of owners to comment should protect against that.
if this rule was in place, this trade may have qualified as well as some others from the past for certain made by new owners.
I hope that was clear and made sense. Glad the league is picking back up again and hope everyone’s been healthy and safe.
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Post by Los Angeles Dodgers (Jon) on Jul 4, 2020 12:12:42 GMT -8
While not having an opinion on whether this trade should be revisited or not (I think that’s the commissioner’s call), I will say that I don’t think it’s nearly as lopsided as some think. Altuve seems to be regressing a bit to me. He didn’t steal bases last year, and although his power was as good or better than ever, most of that was either the ball or the cheating in my opinion. I know when I first saw Altuve offered up for trade, I checked into it, but deceived not to even make an offer with that salary. Would he improve my team? It’s likely he would. Was he worth the price? I’m not so sure. So I see the players gained in the trade as decent if not great value. The biggest discrepancy I see is in salary now and future salary obligations. Therefore I would call it +20 Yankees, far from the most lopsided trades I’ve seen here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 12:47:16 GMT -8
I distinctly remember at least one deal between Phillies and someone (Astros or Giants, I think) that had to be tweaked because it was similarly criticized, it's not like it's totally unprecedented to at least adjust a lopsided deal. Perhaps that's the best solution here too and probably should have been done on a couple of other previous referenced deals.
Curtis not wanting to outright nix trades is commendable to the degree that there's always a slippery slope of how lopsided a deal has to be judged before it gets nixed, but by the same token people are asked to grade trades on feedback for a reason. The fact it's a rookie owner on his first trade is what makes it worse for me imo. If it was some guy who's been in the league a couple years I'd actually be more willing to say okay maybe he's got his own valuation of players (as long as it's not the beginning of a total idgaf tank job by someone on the way out), but there's at least gotta be some fail safe in a league like this apart from just the token seven-day no trade period.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 14:38:50 GMT -8
You are absolutely right Hasán. I may have taken too firm a stance in my first post, some rework has definitely happened before and should be allowed in certain situations, but maybe we need to better make it clear as to when it can happen if possibly?
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Post by Chicago Cubs (Curtis) on Jul 4, 2020 16:30:49 GMT -8
I do want to make it clear that my comments regarding restructuring the deal are solely a suggestion and not a mandate to do so. As previously stated I do not believe in veto-ing trades either by commissioner mandate or majority vote. I will leave it up to NYY and HOU to determine a modified deal or not based on this league feedback.
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Post by Seattle Mariners (Robin) on Jul 5, 2020 21:38:57 GMT -8
I am completely against commissioner vetos and vetos in general. I can see the reasoning of Wade trading one of his better players for a 1st rounder (Sorry I will never buy Ty France being a carrying piece, sorry Josh) to shape his team how he wants. I do think there is something to say about the way players are valued in this league, it can be a challenge to gauge the temperature of the market when you are new. Did Altuve get moved on the cheap, probably, is it the worst trade I've seen, no. That being said I am on board with a restructure deal if consensus is there accross the league.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 10:54:24 GMT -8
It's a piece away from being balanced, I'd like to see another guy or an upgrade of France to a higher ceiling guy further away if there is a restructure. France is Quad AAAA and even if he gets traded I don't think it's to be a starter. At the same time Altuve is a short term asset, I don't know what you can really expect for this year in terms of value for any player, and with the pricetag he's difficult to move so I don't really see Wade getting a substantially better deal anyway. I'm fine with either outcome tbh, but I'm like 55/45 in favor of a restructure or just adding an additional piece just because of the calibur of Altuve and his ranking at his position.
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Post by Milwaukee Brewers (Mike) on Jul 7, 2020 19:29:52 GMT -8
I'm late to the conversation and may not add much that hasn't already been covered. I was lucky enough to join the league when there was much more MLB action, so there was more action here. I had the opportunity to see trades between other teams and try to gauge how others in the league value player and picks. Even with that, and several deals under my belt, I still have a difficult time with MLB player vs prospect vs draft pick value, as several other owners have heard from me in trade discussions. Wade hasn't had that same opportunity.
The league response to a few of my earlier trades was not positive in my favor. I was ok with that and appreciated seeing the feedback as it helped me going forward. That said, I still don't regret any of those deals enough to think that I really screwed up. Just my perspective, but that's subjective for all of us.
As Hasan said, we have to avoid someone in tank job mode, but I don't think that's what this trade is. The trade isn't balanced in my opinion, more so than most trades I've seen since I joined the league. I think its up to Wade and Josh if they decide the deal should be restructured.
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Post by Baltimore Orioles (Jazz) on Jul 8, 2020 8:22:42 GMT -8
In reality the trade is tilted. Everyone in the league will feel differently on how far tilted. Who likes picks who likes prospects? It's all in the eye of the owner. I personally feel this deal could be easily changed in the fact that we know the direction wades team is heading in the rebuild phase. Maybe it's as simple as retaining no money giving him extra for free agents and What not.. Or Josh trades a few more picks giving better chances at finding a diamond. I'm not for forcing it but it could be seen by everyone its tilted if they are happy let it be. The fine details of the deal aren't crazy but the names and production are off to me. I think everyone would do the deal in tge Yankees perspective
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Post by New York Yankees (Josh) on Jul 9, 2020 17:38:40 GMT -8
Ok after talking with Wade a bit we've agree the Yankees will send a 3rd round 2021 amateur pick in with the previous trade. That's what he felt was fair after we talked and I agreed. Hope this helps get this trade finalized!
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Post by Chicago Cubs (Curtis) on Jul 10, 2020 16:41:24 GMT -8
Ok, thanks for updating this. Houston Astros (Wade) please post your confirmation when you're able to. I don't think there has been a precedent set allowing future draft pick trading beyond the upcoming draft (e.g. 2021 AMAT when the 2020 AMAT draft hasn't been completed). I will be implementing language to explicitly not allow this in the future, as I don't want to have to keep track of all of the future draft pick movement. I'll allow this to go through though since there isn't a precedent and we are pretty close anyways.
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Post by Houston Astros (Wade) on Jul 11, 2020 4:03:41 GMT -8
Yes, I agree to the trade. I am looking to rebuild this team through the draft and another draft pick to add to prospects.
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Post by Chicago Cubs (Curtis) on Jul 11, 2020 6:19:03 GMT -8
Processed
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Post by New York Yankees (Josh) on Jul 11, 2020 8:12:01 GMT -8
Curtis I believe you forgot the 5 million retained money.
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Post by Chicago Cubs (Curtis) on Jul 11, 2020 9:08:36 GMT -8
Curtis I believe you forgot the 5 million retained money. Fixed
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